Jason Weber (00:13)
You know folks and welcome to Two Couches and a Coffee. We've been away for a little bit Darren but we're back and my goodness hasn't the world changed.
Darren (00:21)
It's changed a bit for me in particular mate. Yeah, nice.
Jason Weber (00:24)
Well, well, I'm back in office, so it's changed for me a little bit. Well,
listen, we're going to go with first of all, congratulations. There is no, no doubting that's a well-deserved position, but my goodness, it is, it is a big role. It is a big role. question. Now you're going to get peppered with questions because I need to but tell me first.
What is the job? Because it's not the same as HPM here in AFL. What's it look like? Just give us a synopsis.
Darren (00:56)
No, it's, it's, it's got a dirigente role, I guess, in Italian. It's a director of performance and the title is, you know, you and I have spoken often enough about titles, but it's overseeing all aspects of performance and data in the club. And yeah, it's exciting role. It's club wide. So it's, it's not just with the, with the men's senior team, although that's, that's obviously a
Jason Weber (01:23)
It's
the MANGAGE
Darren (01:23)
primary focus,
but the Women's Academy, the doctors, the psychs, all aspects of performance.
Jason Weber (01:28)
Righto. So you've, you,
you oversee the medicos.
Darren (01:31)
Yeah, it's... And that's going to be a bit different to Italian football, because normally in Italian football, the doctors are quite senior and that won't change, obviously, because the doctors have obviously done a fair bit of research on the staff there and the club and before making the decision, and the doctors there are fantastic, so I'm looking forward to working with them and...
Jason Weber (01:49)
Yeah
Try it.
Darren (01:55)
As you know, in some physicians, when you're overseeing the medical side of things, that doesn't change. You just work with the doctors. never overrule the medical doctors or anything like that, and that won't change. look, it's really exciting. It's a completely different culture to what I'm used to. It's obviously a massive club who've undergone an interesting last sort of 10 or 12 years that...
Jason Weber (02:18)
Yeah.
Darren (02:19)
ups and downs a little bit and so I'm looking forward to the challenge. It's just, you know, life's short, mate. We spoke a bit, speak about that a bit.
Jason Weber (02:24)
No,
mate, I think I what it's worth, mate, I'm very proud. I am proud you're going to do it because few people get the chance. And it's one of those things where you go, well, am I going to find out? It's a good test. I would always say, I think you've got to continue to test yourself in whatever context you find it. And I'll do the little preaching thing for a bit. think.
Darren (02:39)
Yeah.
Jason Weber (02:48)
Young staff, I've just put a young staff member on at work and in a new position, it's different. But I had the same conversation day, like my challenge yourself, challenge yourself to be the best at what you can be. And then as I was once told many years ago, the cream will rise to the top and really good practitioners will be rewarded, which I think is what you've, β you've indicated or illustrated. You're a great practitioner. You've,
Darren (02:56)
Mmm.
Jason Weber (03:12)
I it's going to be exciting times. Whether we get to continue to podcast, I'm not sure.
Darren (03:19)
Let's hope so. We might have to call it something a bit different because I'll be probably in the suit and tie more so than theβ¦ Well, yeah, I might be a coach in a suit or something. look, my philosophy won't change. The philosophy that is the only thing that I've known for the last 20 years, obviously things have evolved sinceβ¦
and you mold things to suit your environment and that'll be my great challenge. And one of the exciting things about along with learning Italian and probably learning to ski given where I'm going to be located. that'll be a big challenge as well. So no, never. yeah, it's, look, I've watched, like I said, I've done a lot of research. It's been hard because we've been in the AFL finals and
Jason Weber (03:54)
β so you've never skied before? β my good lord.
Darren (04:08)
β you know, it's been pretty intense and I've helped the club find a replacement and, you know, spoken to all of the players. so it's really sad. And I should say that really sad to leave the crows because I feel like the crows are on a really steady path, upwards and, β the success waiting for them. They, know what it takes now. So it's been sad to leave them, but you don't say no to, to Juventus and the role and the, and you know, the challenge.
Jason Weber (04:30)
Absolutely.
The opportunity
Darren (04:36)
Yeah.
Jason Weber (04:36)
mode. Fantastic. My boy, you make a great point there. you elaborate on this, how you see fit, but we've often talked about the strength of network and what it means to have good people around. Now your replacement into Adelaide, β that wasn't advertised that I'm aware of it's, it's people knowing good people. and I would be comfortable in saying that.
Darren (04:55)
No.
Jason Weber (04:59)
The role you got at Juventus probably wasn't advertised either. That was good connections. Is that fair?
Darren (05:01)
Peace.
Yeah, it's an interesting one.
Well, yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah, let's talk about the Croats one first. Once it was obvious, not obvious, but yeah, once it was apparent that if the visa was sorted out, because it's quite a unique visa that I've had to apply for and get.
Jason Weber (05:08)
Give me what you got on that.
Yeah
Once the decision was made.
Get from it.
Darren (05:25)
But the club asked me if there were some people and I gave them a few names and they reached out to a few people and one of them being Ian and I guess it's a bit Ian McEwan, Maccas is coming back. Yeah, welcome back. it's not necessarily, Ian is a great fit for the club where they're at at the moment, both personally and professionally.
Jason Weber (05:35)
Yep. Welcome back, Magus. Welcome back, Magus.
Darren (05:49)
And to be honest, I haven't spoken to Ian much in the last sort of four years. So it's not like we're best mates, but immense amount of respect for how he goes about it and the fit that he will provide where the crows are at now is fantastic. And it's a magnificent appointment. But he's certainly part of my network. As far as the Juventus job is concerned, I've worked with Damien Camolli before.
Jason Weber (05:54)
No.
Darren (06:13)
However, that was really briefly 12 years ago. what I'll say about that is it's probably it's certainly the biggest job I've ever and will ever get. But I'm convinced that if you don't be a prick, like it's a simple golden rule is don't be. And, you know, that's if any Italians are listening, that's
Jason Weber (06:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Darren (06:33)
that might get lost in translation. But go about your work in the right way, with the right attitude, ethics, morals, work ethics, put the club first. And you just don't know where that will lead. And I think probably a lot of practitioners maybe think that they need to be doing other things. Like I need to be networking to the right people and I need to be β
Jason Weber (06:55)
Yeah.
β
Darren (06:56)
speaking
to the right people in the club. need to make sure if the CEO is in the room, I need to speak to him or her. If the coach is in the room, I need to speak to her. I'm not going to speak to my nutritionist or my equipment manager. And that's just not the right way to go about it. Do your job. And who knows, mate? It's a volatile world that I'm walking into. And so who knows how it'll go. like I said to you,
Jason Weber (07:10)
Nah, great.
Darren (07:21)
This is an adventure and a club that you just can't turn. I mean, as you've been to, you just can't turn it down. So let's see how we go.
Jason Weber (07:25)
No, of course not.
But mate, look, awesome stuff, but I do think you make a point like, yeah, I agree. I don't like the networking pestering people, but there's no question. You meet people, you're polite, you do well. And mate, I'm going to say, if I wish I had long hair and I looked more like a hippie, but you pay it forward. Like you're going to do the right thing by people. And mate, I had a really interesting conversation as the world turns.
Darren (07:36)
She was.
Yes.
Jason Weber (07:53)
I had a great conversation with a guy named Tom Tomlinson the other day from England. Currently at Manchester City. Now Tom's a journeyman, been around New South Wales Waratahs, worked with an old mate of mine Dr Phil Wagner with Sparta Performance, was at England Rugby for a long time, excellent running mechanics guy, looks super sharp. He and I sort of nearly met probably four or five times across the last 10-15 years.
Darren (07:54)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
So.
Jason Weber (08:18)
Mate, sitting down and chatting with him last Friday and just being able to just talk as two people who've had some similar experiences and share them is super
important. no matter, clearly, like I was involved in a conversation about SpeedSig, but we spoke more as just compatriots, know, guys who'd worked similar paths. We worked with similar people. both worked with Eddie Jones for long time, so there a couple of war stories to tell.
Darren (08:34)
I'm
back.
Jason Weber (08:46)
Yeah, yeah. But again, it's that notion of just meeting good people. And I think you come across them everywhere. And I think that's the thing. You're going to try and call on good people. So you haven't spoken to Maccas for years, but he's a good guy, you know.
Darren (08:57)
Yeah,
yeah, you know what he stands for, you know what it's about and he's a fantastic fit for where the crows are heading and I'm gonna miss the hell out of a lot of people at the crows and the environment but I'll be back in Adelaide, yeah exactly and
Jason Weber (09:16)
Yeah, of course man. It's good to be living on good terms then man.
Darren (09:21)
Yeah, I'd like to think that I've left the club on really good terms and yeah, for sure.
Jason Weber (09:24)
Mate, I'll just throw
one. I'll throw on that just because this is important. We're trying to like, mean, realistically, this whole thing's aimed at, you know, mid career people who are trying to help. But one of my young, my youngest coach from my tenure at Freemail, Jackson Dennis, has just got the HPM role at, at, at, β GWS Giants. Now I know Nick Pullos there really well. β I know Jason McCarthy really well.
Darren (09:41)
Yes, good story.
GWS.
Jason Weber (09:51)
So when I knew they were looking for someone, albeit they'd spoken to some others, I was on the phone to say, you've got to talk to Jackson because I know all the training he'd done. know the time he'd done in different roles. He was absolutely ready. So, he's gone and made he interviewed. They didn't ask me for referees because obviously I put my hand in the hat in the ring early. But I think it does work the other way because you do get people that will advocate for you in advance.
And again, that's, but that's because it's the same thing you said that, mate, he's a good, great guy. spent a lot of time with him and good practitioner, like fantastic. And he's going to do a really good job. So I'm happy to put my hand up. And that's again, he hasn't asked me to do anything. I've done it only because I value the guy's friendship and I value him becoming a better, right. Getting another opportunity. Same as you. Right. It's a different thing, but
Darren (10:18)
Yeah, exactly.
Jason Weber (10:44)
I think for, again, for young practitioners out there, just keep being a, you know, operate well in the space you've been given to work in. Do a great job and, you know, look after folks like Darren said.
Darren (10:56)
Put
the club first, put your role first. Don't put your personal ambition first, put your role first. And not necessarily your relationship with the players or with staff or whatever, that's really important. But what is the best decision for the club? It's interesting because I've already been looking at a couple of staff that I'm bringing in.
Jason Weber (11:01)
Yeah.
Bye.
Yeah, yeah,
Yeah.
Darren (11:22)
And in one of them, I've not met the staff member before, but I've gone to a few of a few people that I know have worked with her in the past and they would never ever be on her reference list. But you just do a bit of digging online now. can find such a small industry. can find, oh, yeah, OK, she went there. She did this. She did this. Let's find out about her. And, you know, fortunately, it was all
Jason Weber (11:42)
Yeah.
Darren (11:47)
you know, really positive. so, yeah, we'll see where that leads. there weren't people on the reference list. There were a couple of players that have been at clubs that I've been at that worked with her, plus some staff that were inferior or lower down in the food chain. So you can see how, did she treat you? How did you know? And so, yeah, all of those things happen.
Jason Weber (12:07)
Awesome. Just here's one for your homework listeners. If Darren's talking about putting the club first, there's a great book by a guy named Pete Blaber. Blaber. Pete B-L-A-B-E-R. The mission, the men and me. It is a military text, but it's so much about what's important first. The mission is number one. The second is your people. You look after your people. And then the last person you think about is yourself. And I must admit,
I've taken that from the moment I read that I've read it three or four times and I really like it's got nothing to do with shooting anybody or anything like that, but it's got to do with management and discipline around how you approach people. And when you, when you just spoke about that, man, I couldn't help thinking like the mission, the man and me, that's the way you operate. And if you do that, I think, you know, it's a good, really good way to set yourself up.
Darren (12:56)
Yeah, I think so. think, like I said, too many people think, OK, what's my next career move? I need to do this in order to get my next career move. No, you just service the people in front of you.
and the situation in front of you as best you can. speaking of which, one of the really good people in this space who's had a lot of success in the last couple of years is Damien Austin out of the Brisbane Lions. And they had an interesting decision to make over the weekend. for international audiences, I'm going to throw this to you, Jason, but we had our AFL Grand Final and one of the best players in the comp in the last 10, 15 years.
Jason Weber (13:07)
Be good.
yeah, yeah.
Well, two times to two two Brownland medalists. So Brownland medalist is league league MVP. Right. So he's won that twice. I made I'm very, very proud to say that I had lucky as an 18 year old. He was at Freo for a bunch of years with me. Amazing character. Just a quick story. You got to go to the ice, get set a quick scenario. This is.
Darren (13:39)
Pretty handy.
Yeah, you got two of them.
So the scenario I'm gonna, β no, you go then.
Jason Weber (13:59)
Just what you get when you get a high quality one. Right. I'd had, I'd done a bunch of work with one of our other MVP's and other player at the club, but he came as a young guy and said to me, know, Jase, I want to be like, not like him, but I want to do that sort of work, that level. And I said, well, I tell you what, mate, you go away and have a think about it. Come back, came back the next day, sat in my office and said, like, you tell me what to do. I'm doing it. And to his word, he committed.
Darren (14:26)
Thank
you.
Jason Weber (14:26)
Absolutely. by the time we were done and he was
playing, he was fantastic. And he's gone on to become such a better player since he's moved to Brisbane. Just phenomenal. So what's the scenario you're throwing at me, mate? Because we know the story.
Darren (14:34)
Well, scenarios is
he had, I believe it was groin followed by calf, adductor followed by calf and they only played limited minutes in the last sort of eight weeks and three weeks out of the.
Jason Weber (14:46)
Yep, correct.
Yeah, 52 minutes,
52 minutes in eight weeks.
Darren (14:57)
Three weeks out of the grand final, he, potential grand final, he strains his soleus. Really obviously tried to play on and hide it, but you could tell that it was a calf or soleus. I'm not sure which one. think it might have been a calf more than soleus because it was a few weeks and, or gastroccus should say. And all week, he, won't he play, will he, he play, will he, he play? β
Jason Weber (15:09)
Yeah, yeah.
Well,
even the most surprising one is they came out in the media, even heated on social media after it happened. And he said, season done. I'm out six weeks. I'm done. And then three weeks later, he gets up for the grand final and everything as Darren said, everything was by the minute. Can this guy get up? He trained. So let's say the G the grand finals on the Saturday, the previous Saturday. And we've had this conversation before he did a full session. So he's gone about 8k. He didn't go full. So we would expect him to go.
Darren (15:28)
you
Yep. β
Jason Weber (15:46)
you know, 10s into 12s at full loading. He's gone eight, which is exactly kind of what we talked about a couple of podcasts ago. But the really interesting thing was they've
come, he's got through training, he's done everything. And then they've selected him as the substitute. So in AFL, you can sit a guy on the bench and he just waits and they can switch him into the game. And even, even,
Darren (16:03)
Yep.
Jason Weber (16:14)
The coach had said after game he could look like an idiot, but it was the perfect move because looking at him, I reckon he had about 30 minutes in him. And that's the, you get that bit where they've had two injuries back to back,
52 minutes of game time in eight weeks. It was just a class decision from all involved. I'm sure Damian was a big part of it, but I think their medical staff, the coach.
Darren (16:30)
The β
show.
Jason Weber (16:40)
I
just, it was an illustration of when a team comes together and makes a really smart call, not vote with their heart and say, well, he's got to play. What if he goes out and plays that 30 minutes upfront and the game was in the balance of 30 minutes by the time he came on, he came on and helped break it open and Brisbane went on to win. Yeah. It's first time ever grand final at halftime.
Darren (16:54)
It's water flower. He really did. Look, it was was it was a tie at half time when he came on. It was literally a tie. Yeah.
Yeah. And and so and he came in and was unbelievable. Like early on, he was a bit fumble, but he was fantastic. So yeah, I mean, luck to him. Great decision. Great, great understanding of the situation. Taking a
Jason Weber (17:11)
Yeah, God dodgy.
Darren (17:19)
well-educated risk with a senior player who I've no doubt, you know, we're talking about the Stephen May call four or five years ago. β I've no doubt you your trust in your player, buy a trustor system and look what you get.
Jason Weber (17:27)
Yep.
What I don't this and maybe Damien will give us a call and tell us, what I don't reckon happened was they did play, the coach goes, what do you think player will just play? Cause I've seen that happen. It's disastrous, but I would genuinely believe that the staff have come together. They've said, look, is our best opportunity. Sure. The coach has gone and asked the player, but I think coach Fagan's just
Darren (17:42)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Jason Weber (17:58)
really brought together. So I will throw one thing, and this is not me being overly military, but I did hang out in the military for a couple of years there. When they finish a job, they do what's called AAR, after action review. And I think this is one of those cases where if you haven't worked in it, just like Darren and I do, we always talk about hypotheticals because we don't have all the information and in this case we don't. But have a think through it. How might it have gone differently? What could have happened?
Darren (18:17)
Thank
Jason Weber (18:25)
And what signals might you have seen? like I guarantee he has come, he's gone through the full force plate thing. He's been able to do all of that. He's been able to execute speed. He's been able to do his session. The previous Saturday would have been at, you know, I think I even said in the paper, it was above game speed. Great. So they really probably did put him to the sword so that all the signals were there. I would suggest that.
Darren (18:26)
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Again, we really can't afford to talk about the rain on the Avenue.
Jason Weber (18:52)
the day after that was the Saturday before the grand final. Sunday morning he was in and the physios would have been palpating that calf to see how it responded. And that signal is so important. And I just think, again, just to clap them on the back again, I think they've had a great team that's put in an excellent amount of work and come together with a sensible decision, which paid massive dividends to them because it did go the other way for the other team they had.
big injury in the game that probably impacted them. But that's the way it goes. You do take a punt, but I think they took a really educated punt. An excellent one. Congratulations, Damian Austin and the Lions.
Darren (19:32)
Okay, and also, yeah, it's Luke at Physio as well, who's
β Yeah, I met briefly and he seems like he's fantastic. I was with him with the All Stars and he was fantastic as well. So, well done.
Jason Weber (19:46)
Yeah well listen mate I think that's your model to go and figure out. The challenge for you is really get the Italiano down pat so you can have those cool discussions with the coach. Here you go.
Darren (19:59)
Yeah, look,
the coach is serving, so we'll see. Yeah, he's.
Jason Weber (20:03)
I was going
to ask you, do they go international or do stick pretty internal in Italy? It's clearly not Serbian.
Darren (20:09)
Yeah, no,
look at yeah, yeah. So, no, we'll look forward to working with him as well. yeah, it's it's it's all to play for. It's it's it's in front of me and it's exciting. But Brisbane, back to the back to the AFL sort of circle for a bit. Been a lot of change in the in the high performance world. It's probably, you know, remiss remiss of us not to finish the
Jason Weber (20:19)
Well.
You're gonna love it.
Excuse me.
There's been a lot.
Darren (20:34)
the podcast with a bit of comment on. We've had Matt Innes go from West Coast to Essendon. We've had Phil Merriman go from Fremantle across town to West Coast. We've had, as you said, Jackson Dennis to GWS. And we've had obviously Mackers take the crows job.
Jason Weber (20:46)
Yeah.
Traction Dennis off to JWS.
into the cries.
Darren (20:56)
And I believe there's change at Port Adelaide as well. The physio Tim Parham has been promoted to, I think it's, I'm not sure the title, but β head of performance role, high performance manager. Anything, anyone that I've missed.
Jason Weber (21:06)
My freeman are now freeman have lost because they lost so they feel merriman left. He's gone and then Jackson Dennis has gone. So freeman are looking for two. So that's probably not an ideal situation for them. But you know what? If you hear on this podcast, give Maureen hunt them down, see if you can get on that list. You never know what will happen. Yes, it was. Yes, it was.
Darren (21:09)
free man, right? Yes. β
and Jackson.
No.
was advertised, wasn't it, β the free edge of, yeah, yeah. So
we'll see where that lands.
Jason Weber (21:33)
I'm sure they'll
find someone that'll be, I suspect, one of the young guns in the environment, you would think. But we'll see. We'll see. We'll see.
Darren (21:42)
Yeah, yeah, okay. No problem. Well,
I have a couple of weeks before I get the one way flight out of here and then my first one way ticket. Yeah, first game is in, I've got two destinations for you, Jason, which will impress you. One first game is away at Lake Como, against Como and second game, that's the day that I arrived. And then
Jason Weber (21:51)
One-way ticket, that's exciting.
Darren (22:07)
Then I'm off to Madrid in the Champions League to play Real Madrid away. So it interesting times. Good baptism of fire.
Jason Weber (22:11)
Fantastic times. Fantastic times.
Well, I tell you what, my thrilling existence, I'm off to Brisbane to the QAS in a couple of weeks with Maddy Haas to go in the Australian Olympic Network. We help review each other's stuff. So I'm going up there with Hassy, a good old crows boy as well to see what they've got. They've got some great stuff up there. So I'm looking forward to meeting all of them.
Darren (22:31)
Until next
Yes, he is, yes.
Jason Weber (22:39)
and seeing what's going on and maybe we need to chat on here a bit more about some crazy strength athletes and speed athletes within the Olympic regime. Very different.
Darren (22:51)
Yeah, I'm
not sure how much I'll be allowed to sort of discuss around what's happening at Juventus, but we'll keep discussing about current topics in general and see how we go.
Jason Weber (22:58)
Nah, the boys won't
be squatting 300 kilos at Juventus I wouldn't think. But I'm off to see the great Damian Marsh at the Wallabies tomorrow. They got their last game against the All Blacks this week. And the boys were looking good in the gym earlier this week again. A couple of big squats. They're looking good and they got the big man Will Skelton back so we're...
Darren (23:05)
I will not go.
Brilliant
Mmm.
Jason Weber (23:25)
and games in Perth. you know, I will be pulling out the old green and gold and going, looking forward to that very much. so, mate, you go and, have a great evening and enjoy the rest of your, β little holiday you're having there and maybe we'll get back to the work over here and maybe before you go, we'll, we'll look after our, look after our listeners and we'll do it. We'll do a few, few quicker ones. Anyway, it's been a pleasure with all of I hope you are.
Darren (23:29)
Excellent.
Excellent.
for sure.
Jason Weber (23:51)
all heard lots about what Darren is doing and we'll catch you all next time. Ciao ciao.
