Jason Weber (00:14)
G'day and welcome to Two Coaches and a Coffee. Darren Burgess and Jason Weber with you here. How you going Burgess? How's life in Italy?
Darren (00:23)
I have a coffee and a pastry so it's fair to say I've integrated into Italian life.
Jason Weber (00:28)
Yay.
Darren (00:31)
Yeah, busy, mate. Always. But Christmas period in European football is always pretty busy. ⁓ The Italian Italian League used to have a Christmas break. Fortunately for me, it stopped this year. So we didn't get one, but that's OK. It is what it is, mate. But more importantly, one of the. reposted it on LinkedIn. There was a big.
Jason Weber (00:37)
Crazy times.
Yep.
Darren (00:53)
article every so often a decent, not a decent article, an impactful article that a lot of people comment on. So one of the best humans that I've met in this industry is a guy called Tom Little. And I was at a conference in Monaco, the European Clubs Association conference, which we spoke about on a previous podcast. And I was in the gym trying to get something done. next to me, this
this Yorkshire accent. A-up Burjo, that was a horrible Yorkshire accent, but Tom Little, who I had a fair bit to do with during my time in the Premier League, he's been one of the originals, like your Dave Carolyn type who's been with a bunch of the clubs and Tony Strudwick and you and me and people have been around a while. He wrote an article with Martin Besheyt around GPS data in particular.
Jason Weber (01:31)
Yeah.
Darren (01:42)
and it struck a massive chord with me. But before I get on the soapbox, as you know, I did my PhD in this space, so GPS data is very close to my heart. Talk to me about what you thought, because you're a strength guy at the beginning.
Jason Weber (01:56)
So we're going to
on the strength on the strength guy. Goddamn man. I I started as a swimming guy. I was a swimming guy. My my master's degree in physiology. My master's degree in physiology was written in lactic physiology and swimming swimming 200s. So yeah, you think on the strength guy, but on a lot of things anyway.
Darren (02:00)
in the beginning.
can see that from your shape. Your shape is swimming. It's just written all over you.
Jason Weber (02:23)
The article that we're mentioning is that the boys called it a slave. Are you a slave or being a slave to GPS? I'm going to post a link on our podcast thing. It was a great paper. It certainly highlighted a lot of things, but I'm going to jump on the soapbox and say, having spoken to Martin about this about a year ago when we were hanging out in Florida, it's a touch disappointing.
And the reason I say it's disappointing is because I think people haven't pushed hard. Martin's, and I'm just going to blow my own trumpet here. We were doing that 10 years ago. All of the, all of these combinations. So what he talked about was being a slave to distance and SpeedSig and that they're not really indicators of what we're doing. And they're not, they're the things that we jumped on early because they were easy. And when we talk about GPS, yes.
Darren (03:00)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Weber (03:17)
They're the things, they're linear displacement metrics. So how far did you move from point A to point B? How many times did you do it? There it is. But the fact is those little buckets of technology you're wearing on your back are stacked with a whole bunch of other things, primarily IMU, which Martin mentions And I would agree 100%. as the SpeedSig guy, I've been tooling around with that stuff.
for a long, long time. As soon as I had the capability to crack that stuff open, I was on it because you're absolutely right. To understand what a player's doing or even, sorry, that's wrong. Not to understand it, but to even approach something that is close to understanding it, that's getting us closer than GPS alone. Yeah, we have to understand that a player's moving up and down. They're twisting, they're rotating. And one of those rotations done,
Darren (03:58)
Okay.
Jason Weber (04:07)
or how those things, those movements done in association with velocity, which then escalates everything. So I thought the article was great. I thought he's bang on. In fact, there were three plots.
Darren (04:17)
But you don't
think it went far enough?
Jason Weber (04:20)
⁓ no, I think in my opinion, all the people out there wearing sports science badges that haven't already done that are kidding themselves, in my opinion.
Darren (04:30)
So how would you, if you were at a club or at an organisation, if you had a young sports scientist or an old sports scientist, doesn't matter, ⁓ who was constantly giving you GPS-derived guidelines around the training or around assessment of performance, how would you handle that?
Jason Weber (04:32)
You
Yeah, yeah.
Yes. ⁓
I was carrying around the gym the other day a sledgehammer, so I'd probably go with that. ⁓ I think if we take another step back, right? You talked about a PhD earlier and we got people, we're calling ourselves sports scientists and I am critical of myself. I'm critical of what I've tried to do in the past and maybe at times I think what I've communicated as truth probably wasn't.
Darren (04:56)
I'm gonna cry.
Jason Weber (05:16)
which are now better at things. I think I'm like, Martin, I'm cutting into what we're doing. And I was like, like you, I started using GPS around about 2004, 2005, I think, GP Sports first came out. So we've been at this a long time. My point would be to the sports scientist in question, the young staff member, what question are you trying to answer? Let's start with that. Don't start with the technology.
Darren (05:26)
it.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Jason Weber (05:42)
Tell me the question you're trying to answer. What are you trying to convey?
Darren (05:45)
So,
okay, I'll play the role of the sports scientist here. I'm trying to manage load to prevent injury, or to reduce the risk of injury. So that's why I think today we should only train, or this injured player should only do 340 metre sprint instead of, and eight kilometres.
Jason Weber (05:53)
Yeah.
Go.
use of the word load implies you understand something about the physics of what's being applied to the body. Are you actually measuring vertical or horizontal forces at any point? No. So then we could, so we could change the nomenclature. We could say the exposure of training, the training exposure, because load, if you talk to a biomechanist, they will tear you apart for calling it load. So let's start with that. Let's get the name right.
Darren (06:15)
No, we're just measuring, not just, but we're measuring GPS.
Jason Weber (06:32)
So that's the training exposure. Okay. So what elements of training are you measuring, young Darren? Like you're measuring linear displacement. Yeah. So what else have you got at your disposal? Like where are
Darren (06:37)
So we're measuring heart rate and JPS.
So ⁓
we're measuring linear displacement. And the other aspect of training exposure that we're looking at is ⁓ heart rate. And also, we're using the inbuilt technology within GP sports or stat sports around ⁓ IMU accelerations, decelerations.
Jason Weber (06:51)
is alright metabolic.
Yeah.
So my point then with Accel/Decel is they're all linear. Right? So axels decels implies linear displacement. I people are stopping propping. They're also let's take, I know we're not doing just about football, but let's talk about AFL. Guys are accelerating and then bending over to pick the ball up. So there's another, if we're going to talk about physical load on something.
We have to understand how much that body's going up and down. And it's going up and down in relationship to speed So then, I mean, we're playing a weird game here, But the fact that the question that I think Martin brings up beautifully, when he had the three plots, when he talked about the difference in the size of games, of small-sided games, and then the impact that the Accels and Decles didn't really change all that much. Now...
Darren (07:46)
Thank
Jason Weber (07:51)
I can tell you if you're looking at gyroscope in that, in a small size game, particularly in AFL, it goes off the charts when you play. If you go to 250 square meters per play, like small, it really goes off the charts when you go bigger and bigger.
Darren (07:56)
you
So, yeah,
I agree with that. guess what I'm trying to ask, and I think you answered it and prompted my take on it, is what you're arguing successfully and what the paper suggests is we are dictating training by use of a estimate of load, right?
Jason Weber (08:24)
Yes.
Darren (08:25)
We're not dictating training by, how did the player sleep last night? Right now. We're not dictating that, but if you speak to every sports scientist on the planet, they will say sleep is the number one thing. Yet we ask them how they slept, rather than take a measure of that. We're dictating training by GPS measures when we know that there's only a handful of those measures that have been validated.
Right, so yet we're determining the load or the progression of a player. So what you're saying is we're only getting a small aspect of it and it has become the Bible for us. What are you saying? It's not like that.
Jason Weber (08:52)
I'll put another, I'll pose another.
Yeah, so I've got an example.
I could probably post this on on the site somehow, but I'll get this poster. got this three, three. Three guys in a or three types of drills, right? You can run straight line and we can go straight line and we can run that at 130 meters per minute. So it's pretty solid. Like it's it's it's a solid average SpeedSig, but it's straight line. So then if I measured
Sprint, it's probably not that high, not at all, only a little bit. And if I measure what I used to call contested effort, which was how much is the body moving in association with D-cells, axles, and twisting and turning is zero, because you're running straight line. If I bring that down and I make that into like a shuttle, then average SpeedSig can still stay pretty much the same. Sprints go up because you're going a little bit quicker between them. But now, because we're changing direction,
we're getting this contested effort. But if I make that person do a shorter shuttle, and we now do it with a couple of side steps in it and a twist, you know, go around a pole, even if you're taking ⁓ a fall on the ground, because people fall on the ground and get up again. But that, if you're talking about the impact or the exposure on the body, if a player's getting beaten up and falling on the ground a lot, that exposes more. So I do a shorter shuttle.
Darren (10:14)
for sure.
Jason Weber (10:24)
Now the average SpeedSig drops a little bit. The sprints are probably dropped, but the contested effort's gone up. Or that metric around change of record. So I think, my thing is, think Martin's bang on. I think he's absolutely correct. And I think this feeds to what I would argue. I think we've got to be harder on ourselves. We've got to push harder to get closer to the truth. I don't, I think his argument that...
Our truth is based on, we're believing that GPS is everything. When it's not, right, I think we need to be looking harder. I think when you look at the hardware available to us, there's more there.
Darren (11:00)
So if you're
We often joke amongst, let's call ourselves performance managers or whatever term you want to use. If if you send a player with a sore knee to a knee surgeon, guess what? They're going to need surgery. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to need surgery. It's the only tool that you have at your disposal is a GPS. Let's take out training at the moment.
Jason Weber (11:06)
Old bastards.
Be in the comments.
Darren (11:26)
The evaluation of game exposure to load by using GPS. Yeah, I do. Exposure to what would you call when we're game exposure, game stress. How do we assess that more accurately?
Jason Weber (11:30)
Keep using the word, lie down.
Game, don't stress.
Yeah, gain stress, training stress.
Darren (11:41)
How would you assess it more accurately or more holistically given the little Beshite article?
Jason Weber (11:47)
But the problem is, that we do have more available to us. It's just people don't use it.
Darren (11:52)
So I've got a GPS place there, or I've got a second spectrum or whatever my orca.
Jason Weber (11:58)
Let's say, okay, let's say then you're using the LPS.
Yeah, you don't have, yeah, you're using video, right? So that poses a different question. So, right, we've got a different source of, like as much as we can decide a source of truth, if you're using video or just an LPS by itself with no IMU, then here, that's all you've got. So you're going to have to go with what you measure. You've obviously assessed the game and I think
That's a theme that I think was in that Arctic for Monday is measuring what you've got. Like what do we do in a game? But I think then that I think then the conversation is and I've just been writing about this a lot lately is being honest about what you're measuring and what you're not measuring.
Darren (12:32)
Yep.
This is my point. This is my point is this is where I was hoping hoping to get us to now. was my shit questions. I think I think we are we'd need to acknowledge. Yes, we we are only measuring one aspect of it. And by the way, there are a lot of things within the within that measurement that have not have yet to be proven. Like I'm I see reports on
Jason Weber (12:42)
⁓ sorry I took so long to get there,
Ha ha ha.
Yeah!
Yes.
Darren (13:07)
accelerations over two and half meters per second and say, okay, we need to get this player's accelerations up to a match exposure between two and a half and three and a half. No, no, we do not because that's not accurate. So I think that's the important thing. So how would I measure game stress? I think the catchall is to say,
that the game stress is the ultimate test and therefore however we measure it we give it a 10 out of 10. Whatever scale you want to use that's the maximum because all we can give is we can give GPS and say you know what this person did 1300 meters high SpeedSig and normally they average 2000 so that's great that they've had a lower stress.
Jason Weber (13:35)
Ah, I understand.
Yeah, yeah.
Darren (13:58)
right, a lower game stress. But we don't have the, like you said, the gyroscope, the 360, the bend down, the pickup, all of these other things. We don't know the stress that all of that, we don't know the stress from the sport that I'm involved at the moment, which is football, international football. We don't have any of the other stress. It could be cold, could be hot, could be all of those things which we haven't, you know, we haven't considered. So I think we have to...
Jason Weber (14:06)
Yeah, yeah. The bumping in the pliers. Everything.
100%.
Darren (14:23)
say that that is a 10 even if now the the area that the time where i would make a exception to that rule is if uh we play i'm just gonna make up you know i'm with you ventus at the moment so if we play torino in a local derby and for whatever reason i shouldn't use torino as example let's let's use leche um because it's a non a non derby game and
Jason Weber (14:46)
This is called thing.
Darren (14:51)
across the 14, 15 players that we might use in a game, all of them are 30 % lower in their, in whatever metric you choose. But for whatever reason, there was a lot of ball out of play, there was a lot of re-kicks, whatever it is. Then I could confidently say, okay, this was a lower game stress. Right, I'm still giving them a 10 out of 10, but for my training purposes the next week,
Jason Weber (15:04)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Darren (15:16)
it was a lower game stress because whatever metric you use, it's lower and it's lower amongst all 15 people. Only then am I thinking that adjusting training as a result of the game stress because we just don't know.
Jason Weber (15:22)
Yes.
And I think, well, that's my point again, mate. I'll be the narc, right? Is we have like, I'm being told by hardware companies how many teams they have. This company has 3000 teams. This company has five or whatever, two and a half thousand. That's a lot of teams, mate. So I'm going to go with at every level, unless you're running around in park football, which is amateur.
Darren (15:28)
with the tools that we've got at moment.
Jason Weber (15:55)
Every player, every team in every sport, major sport has got a unit on their back and those units have got all those senses. So my argument in all of this is this logic of I'm a sports scientist, I think in a way rubbish. I'm going to throw you one. Here's one. So I met a guy the other day in I'm not going to say where, but
He just took over as the director of sports science in an environment that is very well funded, very well funded. And we caught up and you know what? I checked him out on LinkedIn. said, ⁓ mate, I said, congratulations. You're your first big job. Right. Great stuff. Yeah. How long you been out of uni? Two years. Okay. What did you study at uni? Accounting. All right.
Darren (16:34)
with that.
Jason Weber (16:42)
He says, I'm an analytics guy. I'm like, okay. So that's okay. Maybe he doesn't know a lot about sports science, but with all the GPS and he might be really sharp on the analytics and be able to do stuff. So I said, all right, I'm going to chat through. I've got some stuff to show you about machine learning and that. you understand that? No, never done. I know what it is, but I've never done it. some friends who might have done it. So how are we going there? We're calling this guy the director of sports science. What the
Darren (16:54)
Sure, sure.
Jason Weber (17:08)
You know, like what's he gonna do? Like he's gonna advise somebody, again, he's the guy Martin's talking about. He's going to be a slave to the numbers somebody has told him about volumes and speeds and what.
Darren (17:22)
Unless
someone is there to contextualize it, I agree. That's an issue. One of the things that we try and do on this podcast is to say, okay, here are some trends in the industry and here's what we would do or what the industry, we think anyway, industry ought to head.
Jason Weber (17:27)
Nah.
Darren (17:43)
I can hear people say, yeah, but that's all we've got. So we need to, and we could employ somebody like yourself or, you know, like Alec Battlefield or those people around who understand the nuances around or can adapt like a SpeedSig sig or whatever technology can, and that will help for sure, but it still provides more accuracy in that space.
Jason Weber (17:59)
Have that ability. Yeah, yeah. 100%.
Darren (18:09)
but it's still not a holistic load, holistic exposure.
Jason Weber (18:11)
No, it's not, but it's going
to get you closer. So when we start saying, what am I measuring versus what am I not measuring? Well, listen, coach, I've got their distance, their SpeedSig, and I'm getting how much their body's moving associated with all that. So we've got a closer representation. Now we're never gonna be 100%, never, ever, ever. And I talk to my staff.
Darren (18:16)
for sure.
Now the surgeon
argument, the knee surgeon argument would be exactly that and say, yeah, but what I know, I do very well. And so what I know, I can fix this knee. And that's your argument there, which I like. So this is the area that we're using, but we're not actually using it's full potential. Let's use that because that's the tool that we have. let's make sure that that's.
Jason Weber (18:56)
But what you
learn, yeah, but here's the thing, right? What we do is, and I'm gonna say this honestly, right? And I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but this is where it's at, this is where I'm at. I'm not, nah, well, that's what, like if you're talking, like, right, we've been around a fair bit, right? But there's a lot of people in the industry now that have been around since about 2015, 2010. So they don't know life.
Darren (18:57)
covering everything that it needs to.
Don't ever apologise, you've never done it before, so go right ahead.
Jason Weber (19:22)
without any of this GPS, force frame, dual force plates, eccentric hamstrings. But we worked with stopwatch and pen and paper. That's where I started. And there's nothing wrong with that. And what we've got now is good. But what we're doing is where we're like Martin said, we're slaves to that, those numbers. And I'm seeing it all the time. I'm seeing people who are going, you know what? This kid's had three hamstrings.
Darren (19:24)
Mmm.
Jason Weber (19:47)
We're going to do eccentric hamstring measures until he's got 500 Newtons and he'll be good. He'll never break again. He goes out 24 hours after that test, blows his fifth hamstring and the tendon comes out like it's ludicrous. It's ludicrous for us to surmise. Same with the neurological fatigue. How do you know it's neurological fatigue? You don't, right? You're inferring.
Darren (20:03)
I'm sorry.
No, so
yeah, yeah, that's right. But let me give you a couple of arguments on this point. ⁓ One, the people who initiated the whole neurological fatigue, so you're Stu Cormax and these sort of people, right? I think you, and even like your Tim Gabots with acute chronic, you have to go through that process in order to ask further questions, right? So that would.
Jason Weber (20:17)
Ha
Yeah,
⁓ so you've, yep.
I think you've nailed it.
Darren (20:34)
So that was good. And
we say, okay, the inference of neurological fatigue. Yeah, yeah. And so ⁓ the acute chronic started massive discussion. I guess my challenge to the people out there, because you're exactly right. If you believe, which I do, in Ian McGill, Chris, left, hemisphere in your brain and
Jason Weber (20:39)
We've got to learn.
Yeah.
Darren (21:00)
you know, the left hemisphere is all about data and objectivity and I'm simplifying here and the right hemisphere is about the arts and creative ⁓ and they need to work together. One is not dominant and all that sort of stuff. We are solely focusing on the one side, on the data side. And so, and I promise you I didn't have the time to look at it, but I would imagine in LinkedIn or Twitter or...
Jason Weber (21:06)
Yeah, exactly, function.
Darren (21:24)
Instagram or whatever that article was posted, there would have been hundreds of people messaging saying, yes, this is great, this is fantastic, and yep, I've been saying this for years and all that sort of stuff. But when the rubber hits the road, Jason, and somebody's going through a hamstring rehab like you just described, and you've got this perfect linear progression of ⁓
Jason Weber (21:37)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Darren (21:51)
hamstring strength, you're doing your eyesores first and then you go to your Nordics and then you go to your Nord board and you go, yeah, he's under five, he's never got better, never got better. And then two weeks into a game, two weeks into returning to training, he pings it again, but we had this perfect progression. So how many people are actually adhering to what they're commenting on? I'm not trying to preach here and say that I do or don't or anything like that, I'm just saying.
Jason Weber (22:01)
Yeah.
Darren (22:17)
You've got this information here by two world leaders in in our field. yet I guarantee you and little. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but Shane little and who. But I guarantee in the next two weeks after people reading that and saying, yes, I do that. I do that. don't just they go. No, no, he can't run more than 90 meter sprint today or that'll. No, no. The game is more complex. The body is more complex. Don't.
Jason Weber (22:22)
That's Bush and Little, not you and me. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.
Darren (22:43)
Don't say, yeah, I do that. And then say, no, the limit is 90 meters maximum today. Like, bullshit.
Jason Weber (22:47)
No.
Yeah, yeah. So, mate, here's my, like, I think you made a couple of good points, and I'm probably going to miss one or two that were awesome. But I think the key is, like, A, to say what we're measuring, what we really understand. But you made the point about, OK, right, some of the neurological stuff and some of the acute chronic's been poo-hooed, great. But we've learned from that. Right. Now, I would argue that when you go and try and do other stuff, like you have that hamstring injury.
Darren (23:09)
Yes.
Jason Weber (23:14)
Mate, I will tell you, I've got case studies on my website and I'm not meaning to spruik SpeedSig seek and I don't have all the answers, but I'm trying to move a bit closer. I can see, I've got guys who've got full jumps, full hops, full eccentric hamstring, all of that who are, but you put them on the field and they can't contract the hamstring to create thigh angular velocity, but they can run at a reasonable SpeedSig. You get them to six meters per second, maybe even seven and they look okay.
Darren (23:34)
Mmm.
Jason Weber (23:42)
eight meters per second, when they're a nine and a half meter per second athlete, they start to split and you get this drop in horizontal force production, which is what Moran predicts decay SpeedSig, but you're only getting it in one leg. So what do you think's happening? And the body's gonna try to keep going faster. So how does it generate SpeedSig? It keeps going, it's not gonna stop, right? So you either don't have that capacity in the first place, which...
creates a tear or it fatigues quickly and it tears. Right. So my question in my thing in that and I'm not the be all and end all, but I'm trying to look, I'm trying to seek more information. My argument to myself, people say, why do you go into a PhD when you're 50? Because I had a question that no one was answering. And my idea was I want to know why, why, mate, I was that guy that you said I did all the SpeedSig progressions and I had all the other metrics yet.
Darren (24:21)
Yeah. So.
Jason Weber (24:34)
I still have this injury and that injury. But now I can go and look and I have another source of information saying, hey, maybe you need to slow down there because you haven't got that bit right. And I've seen that now. I'm not saying it's the ⁓ answer to everything by any stretch. But what I would say is I would be encouraging people who are sports scientists to go and look harder, go and challenge. Our job as scientists, if you listen to Feynman.
would be to be inquisitive, to be curious, to go and search for something else. You might only get 1 % better. But if people like Stu Cormack and that don't do the work, we don't stand on their shoulders and go to the next level. We have to have people looking.
Darren (25:04)
Thank you.
So to
go back to your original question and we're going to have to wrap it up here. We had another topic, let's commit to doing another. Yeah, let's do around the same time next week. We'll commit to another one because that other topics important as well. But let me go back to your first point. You answered ⁓ quite correctly, if not a bit vaguely because I don't like that response, but I'll get to it.
Jason Weber (25:25)
We'll bag that one for next time.
Alright, go.
Darren (25:41)
is if a sports science, a data person comes to me and says, we're going to use GPS and we're going to use this and I would do exactly the same as what you said and said, what question are you trying to answer? Right? So when I say a bit vaguely, I'm going to answer it for you and with everything that you've just said using your own information, right? So then the sports scientist says, well, I'm trying to reduce the risk of injury.
That's what I'm trying to do, right? So this information I'm giving you is trying to reduce it. So then I would say to the sports scientists, go and list all of, I would go and list all the things that you think cause an injury and come back to me in a week. Just that, just answer that. And then so they might go and research and then say, exposure, load, strength, age, previous injury, sleep recovery.
Jason Weber (26:12)
and start the right answer.
Yeah.
Darren (26:30)
stress, HRV, they might come back with 20 things, right? Then is where we get to the Weber theory and we say, okay, how many of these are we doing well? Okay, now we can't do sleep well because we don't all wear Apple Watches or whoops or whatever. can't do, okay, no problem. Let's accept the reality of our situation. We can't do sleep well. can't do, what area can we do well? And that may be,
Jason Weber (26:30)
Yep, we know that stuff, yeah.
Yeah, copy that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Darren (26:57)
exposure to training and exposure to match stress. So let's make fucking sure that we do that well because we're not at the moment. And so that's the...
Jason Weber (27:04)
Yeah, 100%, we have
to move the needle. We have to move the needle forward.
Darren (27:10)
Yeah, and so that's the thing. And
then if you're at Manchester City or Benfica or Real Madrid, then you can say, okay, let's make sure we do that well, we've done that well, now let's get to the sleep and the stress and the neuromuscular fatigue, but at the Casey Demons or at East Perth, let's just make sure we do the GPS side well.
Jason Weber (27:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's absolutely within that context. Yes. But what I would say if I was working for you and I came to you with, hey, man, we've worked out these metrics. I'll show you. This is what a game looks like. And this is what you know, you know, that game against when we played Man City, you know, you go, yeah, man, that was like an 11 out of 10. Well, this is the data. So I would show you. I'd be when you said, what are you trying to do? I'm trying to explain.
more of the variability in what we do. I'm not trying to explain injuries. That's not what we're trying to do. I'm trying to offer more information about what it is we do. This is where I come back, you I criticize myself and I think I go like, dude, I've got a PhD on that. Am I really a scientist? Am I any good? That's what I'm trying to challenge myself on. So if you're sitting there with a PhD in load monitoring under your belt,
Darren (28:03)
Yeah, that's point.
Jason Weber (28:22)
I think you need to be pushing harder. I think my opinion is that's what Martin and Little's article shows us is that's the next level. It's showing you the door. Where do we need to go to? We're not going to answer everything. That's not our job. Our jobs are trying to understand more of the variability in our environment. And that variability is what, when I don't know things, when I for years, I follow the data and we go out and we still get injuries. Why?
because now I understand the type of runner they were or the type of exposures we were putting them to, you know, with their running style, they created problems. I understand a little bit more, not a lot. I don't understand everything at all. But I thought their article was extraordinarily positive. And I think young folks, and I'm young, I'm saying young, but I'm 56. I think people in the industry now should be excited by that to go,
Darren (28:59)
Show.
Yeah, exactly.
Jason Weber (29:17)
Hey, we're not sitting still, you know, the arms race is on, let's go, let's like be better. Anyway, let's move on the soapbox. This has been extraordinarily enjoyable, Darren.
Darren (29:25)
No, I agree and...
It has been. has been. Let me ⁓ finish off by saying let's commit to a week, a week's, no, no, no, no, let's commit to something in the next week. And we'll get to the other article that came out, which, yeah, which was a bit controversial as well. So we'll discuss that next week. But as always, Jason, a pleasure.
Jason Weber (29:31)
You submitted for us.
Yeah, there's plenty in that one.
But great to catch up, but I wish we were able to do it face to face and have a coffee, but maybe one day again soon, All right, Bart, you look after yourself and...
Darren (29:58)
There will be the Watch This
Space because that'll happen.
Jason Weber (30:01)
Okay, mate. We hope everyone enjoyed that and I hope you take something from it. It's just two old dudes doing their thing. One's in a suit and one's sitting in front of a coding screen. So there you go. One's the boss, one's the machine. That's about it. See you folks.
Darren (30:11)
Yeah.
Alright
mate, cheers.
